Comments on: How Are We Ever Going To Keep Making Money At Photography? http://cornforthimagesblog.com/2009/07/15/how-are-we-ever-going-to-keep-making-money-at-photography/ Nature & Wildlife Photography Blog Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:48:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: laura http://cornforthimagesblog.com/2009/07/15/how-are-we-ever-going-to-keep-making-money-at-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-1579 laura Wed, 01 Sep 2010 02:20:18 +0000 http://cornforthimagesblog.com/?p=1143#comment-1579 I find this very interesting and it hit a chord with me on all the points you bring up. Wow! I just had to add you to my blog site and a link with this article so that everyone else can read it. Very thoughtful and made me think and I agree with you on almost every point you make here. I work but also do photography when I am not working so I don't have any days off. I love what I do and I have had to deal with images being copied on the web, my solution was to make them smaller therefore they are not really useful if anyone is intent on using them without permission. Thank you for this article! Well done and well stated plus you are a fabulous photographer and I appreciate your talent. Best Regards! I find this very interesting and it hit a chord with me on all the points you bring up. Wow! I just had to add you to my blog site and a link with this article so that everyone else can read it. Very thoughtful and made me think and I agree with you on almost every point you make here. I work but also do photography when I am not working so I don’t have any days off. I love what I do and I have had to deal with images being copied on the web, my solution was to make them smaller therefore they are not really useful if anyone is intent on using them without permission.

Thank you for this article! Well done and well stated plus you are a fabulous photographer and I appreciate your talent.

Best Regards!

]]> By: G Petersen http://cornforthimagesblog.com/2009/07/15/how-are-we-ever-going-to-keep-making-money-at-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-1380 G Petersen Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:49:52 +0000 http://cornforthimagesblog.com/?p=1143#comment-1380 Great photos you have. At the same time, we have to recognize that that level of quality is easily achievable by a sizable number. On one hand, there are photographers who hope to make a comfortable living out of what most others see as a hobby. On the other hand, there are successful people out there with 100k+ careers, who still have time to shoot as a hobby, yet are able to achieve the level of quality that the first group of photographers must dedicate their "full-time-less" time, just to achieve that level of quality. So what we have here are people who are decently talented, yet need to make a living out of photography b/c they don't have another daytime lucrative job, for various reasons. Meanwhile, the second group is composed of people that can just as easily achieve the quality of "full-time photographers," but on their spare time. I'm sorry if this is hard to hear, but hopefully this will help those in the 1st group from being disillusioned into having a dream of making fortunes with relatively "common" skills. Best of luck to everyone. Great photos you have. At the same time, we have to recognize that that level of quality is easily achievable by a sizable number.

On one hand, there are photographers who hope to make a comfortable living out of what most others see as a hobby. On the other hand, there are successful people out there with 100k+ careers, who still have time to shoot as a hobby, yet are able to achieve the level of quality that the first group of photographers must dedicate their “full-time-less” time, just to achieve that level of quality.

So what we have here are people who are decently talented, yet need to make a living out of photography b/c they don’t have another daytime lucrative job, for various reasons.

Meanwhile, the second group is composed of people that can just as easily achieve the quality of “full-time photographers,” but on their spare time.

I’m sorry if this is hard to hear, but hopefully this will help those in the 1st group from being disillusioned into having a dream of making fortunes with relatively “common” skills.

Best of luck to everyone.

]]> By: Michael Petersheim http://cornforthimagesblog.com/2009/07/15/how-are-we-ever-going-to-keep-making-money-at-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-1317 Michael Petersheim Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:54:15 +0000 http://cornforthimagesblog.com/?p=1143#comment-1317 I found this post via Patrick Smith's twitter feed, and it's a frustrating story heard repeatedly. One tool I've only recently discovered (via one of Scott Bourne's websites/blogs, I think...) for finding online infringement is TinEye, a browser plugin that is supposed to do a pretty good job of showing you where all on the internet a given photo is posted. For example, the search results for your Patagonia shot can be seen at http://www.tineye.com/search/3528adf5a7fe1e7950cbcd35665631d85a3e0b94/, although that expires in 72 hours, I think it said. I found this post via Patrick Smith’s twitter feed, and it’s a frustrating story heard repeatedly. One tool I’ve only recently discovered (via one of Scott Bourne’s websites/blogs, I think…) for finding online infringement is TinEye, a browser plugin that is supposed to do a pretty good job of showing you where all on the internet a given photo is posted. For example, the search results for your Patagonia shot can be seen at http://www.tineye.com/search/3528adf5a7fe1e7950cbcd35665631d85a3e0b94/, although that expires in 72 hours, I think it said.

]]> By: Patrick Smith http://cornforthimagesblog.com/2009/07/15/how-are-we-ever-going-to-keep-making-money-at-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-1265 Patrick Smith Tue, 20 Jul 2010 01:29:31 +0000 http://cornforthimagesblog.com/?p=1143#comment-1265 Well Jon, First, I can not remember seeing a better portrait view of that place ever! Second, unfortunately there is no way to fight supply and demand. It is like when BP shareholders complain about their stock dropping and how if they simply did not sell their shares, the stock would still be $60 instead of $35. Supply and demand is nearly as solid as a rule of physics. The fact is, there are now tens of thousands of people who can shoot photos that are 'good enough' for CD covers. So, people can try to hold out for more money, but even when they do, all they get is $300. Still, it is not worth your time to give it away so you are right to not bother with it unless they pay at least some reasonable amount. If they want better than 'good enough' they will pay. But most of the time, good enough is really good enough! I'm off to the Big Island of Hawaii for a couple of weeks. The lava is flowing to the sea again! Patrick Well Jon,

First, I can not remember seeing a better portrait view of that place ever!

Second, unfortunately there is no way to fight supply and demand. It is like when BP shareholders complain about their stock dropping and how if they simply did not sell their shares, the stock would still be $60 instead of $35. Supply and demand is nearly as solid as a rule of physics. The fact is, there are now tens of thousands of people who can shoot photos that are ‘good enough’ for CD covers.

So, people can try to hold out for more money, but even when they do, all they get is $300. Still, it is not worth your time to give it away so you are right to not bother with it unless they pay at least some reasonable amount. If they want better than ‘good enough’ they will pay. But most of the time, good enough is really good enough!

I’m off to the Big Island of Hawaii for a couple of weeks. The lava is flowing to the sea again!

Patrick

]]> By: Birgit http://cornforthimagesblog.com/2009/07/15/how-are-we-ever-going-to-keep-making-money-at-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-762 Birgit Sat, 29 May 2010 18:49:37 +0000 http://cornforthimagesblog.com/?p=1143#comment-762 Hi Jon, I stumbled across your website via Google (looking for something else) and want to thank you for this excellent article. It's very insightful. Like many others, I have started in photography as a hobby, now have a small business along with my day job in the office, and the thought of someday having a living out of it is ever growing. Of course it's harder today than in the days of analog, but I think that professional photography still has a future. Will revisit soon. The quality of the discussion here is hard to find on blogs. All the best, Birgit Hi Jon,

I stumbled across your website via Google (looking for something else) and want to thank you for this excellent article. It’s very insightful.

Like many others, I have started in photography as a hobby, now have a small business along with my day job in the office, and the thought of someday having a living out of it is ever growing.

Of course it’s harder today than in the days of analog, but I think that professional photography still has a future.

Will revisit soon. The quality of the discussion here is hard to find on blogs.

All the best,
Birgit

]]> By: Saurabh Deoras http://cornforthimagesblog.com/2009/07/15/how-are-we-ever-going-to-keep-making-money-at-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-468 Saurabh Deoras Thu, 24 Dec 2009 18:13:46 +0000 http://cornforthimagesblog.com/?p=1143#comment-468 I agree with you Jon. You are absolutely correct about job security these days and that, I feel, will open doors to the individual creativity. I think sustainable economic models will soon emerge in photography, like they exist in engineering. Thats because the sheer scale of participation in photography is very high from photographers, equipment makers, content distributors, educators and consumers. However, this may also pose a danger by commoditizing photography. Either way as photographers we got to follow the passion and the rest will follow. Also we cannot judge art on commercial platform alone. Being able to enjoy the nature in its pristine state, develop a vision and a sense of perspective are some of the very tangible gains. Thank you again for your post and for this discussion. It helped me channel my thoughts. Best Regards, Saurabh Deoras http://sdeoras.smugmug.com I agree with you Jon. You are absolutely correct about job security these days and that, I feel, will open doors to the individual creativity. I think sustainable economic models will soon emerge in photography, like they exist in engineering. Thats because the sheer scale of participation in photography is very high from photographers, equipment makers, content distributors, educators and consumers. However, this may also pose a danger by commoditizing photography. Either way as photographers we got to follow the passion and the rest will follow. Also we cannot judge art on commercial platform alone. Being able to enjoy the nature in its pristine state, develop a vision and a sense of perspective are some of the very tangible gains.

Thank you again for your post and for this discussion. It helped me channel my thoughts.

Best Regards,
Saurabh Deoras
http://sdeoras.smugmug.com

]]> By: Jon Cornforth http://cornforthimagesblog.com/2009/07/15/how-are-we-ever-going-to-keep-making-money-at-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-467 Jon Cornforth Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:35:19 +0000 http://cornforthimagesblog.com/?p=1143#comment-467 Saurabh- The thing that those of us who are sole proprietors have to remember is that we are (thus far) fortunate to be able to work for ourselves. I could make twice as much money working a "real job", but how boring would that be? I briefly tried it, and it was not for me. I also think that most of my peers will agree that we like what we do because we can do it by ourselves. My photography goals are to see the world in a pristine & quiet state, especially those places that few others are fortunate enough to visit. Maybe it is not the most successful business model of all time, but artists have always had to find patrons willing to enable their vision. There are very few photographers in the world capable of not only taking the pictures that I do, but also staying in business through their photography. I've grown my modest business for the last 9 years & can not imagine doing anything else at this point. I have only myself to give credit & blame to. Anyways, what is job security for anyone these days? Saurabh-

The thing that those of us who are sole proprietors have to remember is that we are (thus far) fortunate to be able to work for ourselves. I could make twice as much money working a “real job”, but how boring would that be? I briefly tried it, and it was not for me. I also think that most of my peers will agree that we like what we do because we can do it by ourselves. My photography goals are to see the world in a pristine & quiet state, especially those places that few others are fortunate enough to visit. Maybe it is not the most successful business model of all time, but artists have always had to find patrons willing to enable their vision. There are very few photographers in the world capable of not only taking the pictures that I do, but also staying in business through their photography. I’ve grown my modest business for the last 9 years & can not imagine doing anything else at this point. I have only myself to give credit & blame to. Anyways, what is job security for anyone these days?

]]> By: Saurabh Deoras http://cornforthimagesblog.com/2009/07/15/how-are-we-ever-going-to-keep-making-money-at-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-466 Saurabh Deoras Wed, 23 Dec 2009 21:29:02 +0000 http://cornforthimagesblog.com/?p=1143#comment-466 I hear you Jon. I often think about this and wonder if it is the fact that photographers like to work as an individual instead as a team member that makes them susceptible to economic challenges you described. If you look back on the history of mankind, survival of an individual has almost always been linked to participation in groups and societies. Groups generally do better than an isolated individual. All the stock photography websites, flickr forums and likes of such are flourishing today on the same content that photographers are finding difficult to extract value from. The only reason I could think of is that these sites are supported by many, while a photographer's business is generally supported only by himself. Wonder what your views are on this. Best Regards, Saurabh Deoras http://sdeoras.smugmug.com I hear you Jon. I often think about this and wonder if it is the fact that photographers like to work as an individual instead as a team member that makes them susceptible to economic challenges you described. If you look back on the history of mankind, survival of an individual has almost always been linked to participation in groups and societies. Groups generally do better than an isolated individual. All the stock photography websites, flickr forums and likes of such are flourishing today on the same content that photographers are finding difficult to extract value from. The only reason I could think of is that these sites are supported by many, while a photographer’s business is generally supported only by himself. Wonder what your views are on this.

Best Regards,
Saurabh Deoras
http://sdeoras.smugmug.com

]]> By: Jon Cornforth http://cornforthimagesblog.com/2009/07/15/how-are-we-ever-going-to-keep-making-money-at-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-174 Jon Cornforth Thu, 03 Sep 2009 18:36:55 +0000 http://cornforthimagesblog.com/?p=1143#comment-174 I hear you, Bryan. Another photographer mentioned that he had a client ask to use 10 images for a dive resort's website. He offered them to the graphic designer for $350 total, unlimited use! Guess what? That was too expensive & they started talking about iStock rates. On another note, I just had someone contact me who wants to use 1 of my images as a background on their website. They are a bit of a non-profit group working on an interesting project. I told them that no matter what I offered them, I would be basically donating to their cause, but I would like a token payment acknowledging my work. We agreed on $175, which is OK for a small sale like this. I hear you, Bryan. Another photographer mentioned that he had a client ask to use 10 images for a dive resort’s website. He offered them to the graphic designer for $350 total, unlimited use! Guess what? That was too expensive & they started talking about iStock rates.

On another note, I just had someone contact me who wants to use 1 of my images as a background on their website. They are a bit of a non-profit group working on an interesting project. I told them that no matter what I offered them, I would be basically donating to their cause, but I would like a token payment acknowledging my work. We agreed on $175, which is OK for a small sale like this.

]]> By: Bryan http://cornforthimagesblog.com/2009/07/15/how-are-we-ever-going-to-keep-making-money-at-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-173 Bryan Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:08:35 +0000 http://cornforthimagesblog.com/?p=1143#comment-173 Hey Jon, I seem to go through this more and more lately. Also, the lame offers to use my images for publishing. I just say no thanks after they turn down my terms. Holding out and getting the better deals is best. Too often I hear the words istock or micro stock from possible clients. I work way too hard to get my lava images to be short selling them. Hey Jon,
I seem to go through this more and more lately. Also, the lame offers to use my images for publishing. I just say no thanks after they turn down my terms. Holding out and getting the better deals is best. Too often I hear the words istock or micro stock from possible clients. I work way too hard to get my lava images to be short selling them.

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